Get ready to dive deep into the world of marketing technology as Pierce Ujjainwalla welcomes Paul Wilson to the Unsubscribed! Podcast. Paul has done everything when it comes to Marketing Operations from consulting to client relations at companies like Marketo, Adobe and Salesforce. And fun fact: he actually led the build of Adobe’s current Marketo instance!
Paul’s story is anything but linear. He’s an innovator with a thirst for knowledge and driving change. He’s been there since the early days of Customer Relationship Management (CRM) at Nortel, and played a key role in Adobe’s acquisition of Marketo.
Recorded live at Adobe Summit, this episode is packed with industry experts on the cutting edge of marketing and technology. You’ll learn how tech can supercharge efficiency, and discover the secrets to success for marketing teams who value freedom and creativity.
With his fresh perspective on advancing technology and his deep understanding of its original development Paul Wilson is the perfect guide for this journey. So join us for this must-watch episode and get ready to take your marketing game to the next level.
I’m Pierce Ujjainwalla and you’re listening to Unsubscribed! Every episode I sit down with business leaders to help you question everything you thought you knew about marketing. If you enjoyed the show please do subscribe and leave a review on Youtube or your favorite podcast player. Now onto this episode.
Awesome. Alright coming to you live from a very special edition of the Unsubscribed! Podcast.
We’re here in Las Vegas for the 2023 Adobe Summit, and I’m joined with none other than the
Paul Wilson. It’s incredible to have you here.
This feels like a long overdue conversation that just has.
A decade in the making.
That started many years ago at a Marketo user group in Ottawa of all places.
It’s a small world.
00:01:00 – 00:01:07
Many many moons ago. Yeah. I think it’s great. It’s good to be back an somewhat it’s good to be
back in person after four years and getting the opportunity to connect like this.
It’s such a, it’s such a meeting point, right, every year where you get together, it always feels like
a, a big reunion.
00:01:16 – 00:01:20
Like a high school reunion every year and you see people, you’re like oh look, they’ve lost
Yeah, yeah. I hope people said that about me, I don’t think so. Yes, I got two kids now. Yeah no,
it’s great to, great to be here. And after hiatus too, we just wrapped up the keynote session. What
did you think?
Yeah, every year when I see the way that adobe looks at the world, I think that the challenges
that marketing operations professionals face just explode. The new capabilities and the new, it’s
great to see all the great new tools, but those new capabilities always drive more work for
operations professionals because what is slick and easy on stage takes the support of those
operations teams. So the capabilities, the AI capabilities that Adobe is rolling out. The stuff that
they showed with the ability to take, you know, the image of a tent, just sort of a flat image of a
tent sitting on a bare floor in the capabilities of the adobe sensei engine to take that image and
you can drop it into literally any background. The lighting adapts, the colours adapt for the light.
Like the whole.
That was amazing, and they said the whole presentation, at least that one slide was made all from
Which is their new image generator.
Yeah. You know I think that it’s all part of the ongoing future state of content and how content,
be it image content or text content, all of the inputs around the capabilities that machine learning
can do to bring content much farther along, much easier. Add image when they were able to take
the final image of the tent in situ where it was on the campground, and then immediately see the
various display ad formats, the mobile device formats, all of it.
Cool integration. I noticed a few times, and I thought it was interesting because it seemed like
definitely did this on purpose, they talked about the AI as a co- pilot. It was never the AI is going
to do this. Was definitely a focus around the co-pilot that marketers are going to have some part
to play in this future.
Never tell you that Skynet going to be able to do it all. You know, Skynets going to be a partner. I
really believe that. I mean I think that if machine learning engines are just being designed being
designed to speak to other machine learning engines, you don’t need to human creation factor.
But the human dynamic is still not something that Machine learning systems can comprehend
So we were talking a little but about this yesterday, and then I had a meeting with the CEO of
Revenue Pulse, Joe, last night. And he is running a bunch of events here at Summit, some
Marketo sessions, mixology session, a dessert session. He said to come up with these ideas he
asked ChatGPT about what he thought that it should do. And what blew my mind, because I
agree with you, I think my opinion on AI is humans no other humans we can connect best with
others. Those nuances are gonna be hard for the computer. Blew my mind that Joe told me is that
the events that ChatGPT recommended that he ran the highest registered events. Which is wild.
Well I can understand the context of that because, no I’m sure Joe’s a brilliant guy and so are
you. Available scope of information Machine learning engine has at its fingertips, just exceeds
our capabilities as generalists. Think humans are generalists. We need to be able to deal with you
know, getting the kids out of bed and to school and whether or not the links are properly
configured in the tokens in a Marketo email. Like we, the scope of what we need to be able to do
and react to is tremendous. And it’s got the human variable. Machine learning engines sees data
all day long can use algorithmic views to say, obviously this data is more consumed than that
data, I’m gonna recommend these events. So it has that whole ecosystem it doesn’t have to
process the, the same thing that we do as humans so.
Yeah, absolutely. I feel, I don’t know if you feel this way, I go on Twitter now and all I read is
like, 10 great things you can do with AI for marketers. Explosion, not just chat GPT, but a bunch
of other tools that people have already packaged. Me, I feel a little bit overwhelmed of like, there
seems like so much to learn, .like I like to be someone who stays ahead of things. And you know
both of us are very early in CRM and marketing automation, and I feel we’re on the cusp of this
next thing. Do you, how are you kind of playing with these tools, experimenting. A doo you feel
the same way I do?
Right. Yeah I think I really fundamentally believe you look at the speed of technology
transformation, in a short period of time, let’s just say 20 years. .20 years is not a long time. I
mean it feels like a long time if you’re 22 years old. 20 years is not a long period of time. And
the speed of technology change in these last 20 years is just breathtaking. And I kind of feel like
our technology society .and we as technologist feel like chat GPT came from nowhere. But in
reality it’s kind of like, you know the middle age actor who’s been acting for 20 years, not
getting great parts then all of a sudden gets that part. And everyone’s response is where is this
guy been? And he’s like, I’ve been doing TV commercials, been doing stage plays. Like he’s
been around in growing. And it’s, GPT has hit the tipping point we’re all paying attention now
because it has matured to a place where we can see practical application for it. So for me, the
next phase is it’s not going to go away now that it’s hit that inflection point. What do we as
marketing operations, getting technologist due to adapt our environments now take advantage of
this new framework of content that is gonna come our way. So that’s the way I look at it. I’m
totally mystified that it’s here, but now my question is OK, how do we operationalize it? What
do we do with it?
How do we become the co-pilots? Yeah I mean and I’ve seen over the years, AI, I mean people
were even in the Martech space calling their applications AI powered. And usually it sounded
great but you tried it and it was usually pretty lackluster. I can’t think of any great applications
I’m like this is amazing. But it feels to me now like chat GPT is at a level where it’s good enough
that it is mind blowing, the point where you use it once and it’s such an experience. So mostly
going on the Internet for the first time.
Yeah I completely agree. I think that it’s that transformative moment we’re all kind of feeling
and ,the algorithms ability to humanize the results that we get, guess what we’re seeing as
different because basically, it’s a hyper active google search. I mean you’re searching the Internet
for content instead of it being a response that’s a bunch of links to relevant articles, ,the engine is
doing is it saying, OK, wanna know about how to raise a puppy, going to synthesize the best
results like you would in a google search and instead of just letting you go and consume the
results, it’s got a framework to synthesize that and give you those suggested eight best steps to
raise a puppy.
It’s amazing. Our development team at Knak is already using it. And I don’t know why, I felt like
they would be a little resistant to it of like, well we’re, we write the code. But I feel out of
everyone I’ve almost embraced it the most. Like the quickest. They, they’ve told me if there’s a
bug they can put it into chat GPT and say find the bug. And it’s, it’s accurate and it’s saving them
days of time already.
Well, your engineering team has discovered it. Every high school teenager has discovered it.
Yeah I’m never writing an essay.
Right, and what’s interesting is the idea what digital literacy will mean. Cause I think to your
point where humans were problem solvers in code before, what’s optimization and the ability to
move some of that, not meant to be disrespectful of coders but the grunt work of fixing bugs. To
me it’s very similar if I look from a marketer’s lens, you know, the random ad hoc pieces of
content that BDR’s are trying to fling out into the world to get some sort of response, that
content, the idea of a BDR, you know, that they want to send it out to Pierce. So they’ll go on
LinkedIn see if there’s anything new in Pierce’s feed. Nothing new in the Knak feed. Well maybe
there’s something new interesting in the general email space. Send you a piece of content saying
hey Pierce, have you seen this? Do you have time next Tuesday for a call? Like, some of that
grunt work related to content is, when you start being generated automatically.
00:13:45 – 00:14:01
It’s amazing. I’m thinking now you know, how do I empower the whole company with AI. Like,
do we get everyone in the company licenses to chat GPT into training around it or.
Well, you don’t want people sharing licenses, right?
Yeah, no, no of course not. The AI will come after me.
That’s an interesting question. Like I think that the applications shouldn’t only fit are you
available technology solutions today. So it may be that in your support organization, because
Chat GPT at the moment, the Open AI framework only applies to content bailable on the Internet
up till like 2021. So it doesn’t know the context of what your support team needs to say to
someone when they’ve got an issue and they need to have it addressed. So you know your
support team probably isn’t yet ready for AI. But when the open AI framework and adapt include
not only Internet content, specific Intranet type content from your CRM that shows all the case
histories to be able to provide a response that’s more contextual, that’s where I think the ability to
deploy AI cross the business is going to expand. What I would say in this fiscal year do you need
to incorporate it into the plan. You need to start saying OK, where can machine learning content
improve customer experience in business development? And then start making sure that those
teams have the operational capacity to to leverage machine learning content. And apply it to the
business. I would also say if you start doing that, be really transparent to the customers and
prospects that you’re talking to and say hey you know this case suggestion brought to you by
KnakGPT. And you know, was this good? Like ensure that there’s some feedback. But I think
that businesses particularly in your size of organization, and you’re scaling and going out into the
market and growing, you absolutely need to plan to adapt that into the way that you go to market.
I feel like we could talk all day about the AI stuff. I would like to switch gears a little bit cause I
think you have a such an interesting story and your career and why you started and what you’re
doing now. I’d love to hear just more about your experience and how you ended up you know as
the VP of marketing ops at One Trust.
Sure. You know it’s, it’s a I think it’s an interesting, I mean because it’s mine and I think it’s an
interesting journey just because it’s not curated it’s not crafted. You know so again going back to
the idea that 20 years ago it’s not that far. If I roll back the clock 20 years ago, I was in sales, I
was helping build inside sales organizations for a division of Nortel. And in that organization at
the time, we were using Hoover’s as a website where you would go and try to get information
about companies that you wanted to talk to you. We had very rudimentary CRM systems that
were available to us. And you know I started bumping into the challenge of how to use
information and technology to enable to inside sales organization that I was growing to be able to
be more authentic and connect to the people they were trying to connect to, and have those
conversations start. And you know from those early days being in sales and building sales
organizations, I’m morphed into being that sales person who is always trying to get the person
running the CRM to make changes, to update things, to add a field, to give me more day to do
things. And that need pushed me onto sort of the other side of the formula.
That must’ve been very early days in the CRM space.
Yeah, we’re talking 2001, 2002. I had a salesforce instance in 2001, you know, in early free trial
in salesforce and you know sales was an accidental career for me, I really enjoyed explaining
things to people. So I was sort of an educator sales person. I was not a you know typical type a
sales person. And so helping train sales people was,, you know, definitely a great role for me and
it was a good fit. And I started being the inside sales person or inside sales manager who is also
the CRM administrator. So in a small start up in Ottawa call DNA 13, I was owning salesforce.
Then we started using a marketing automation tool called Vtrenz, which was then bought by
Silver pop, which was then bought by IBM. But you know, we had Vtrenz and then we went to
HubSpot and I was tinkering with how to incorporate the two platforms of marketing automation
So you were in the right place at the right time.
With the right problem.
Sales force right problem, yeah there’s a good problem. You we’re implementing that at a
company. Then what happened?
Yeah, so the company that I was working for, DNA 13, was acquired, and then I kind of took that
as my opportunity to leap and you know the, the expression leap on the net and will appear
happened to me. So I decided I wanted to do CRM consulting. I wanted to be a four hire sales
force administrator. And the company that acquired us hired me to migrate to salesforce instance
that we had into the larger salesforce instance. And then I stuck around selling blocks of hours to
them to help them in their CRM implementation. I gave me opportunity to be in a larger
implementation of salesforce and honing my skills and what those challenges would look like.
And then, you know I just started getting by word of mouth additional customers. So I was a
salesforce consultant for, many years. And then around 2011, I had an opportunity to really focus
in on marketing automation and CRM. So I did a couple of HubSpot consulting gigs, a couple of
Eloqua gigs, a couple of migrations.
And when you did that, when you saw marketing automation for the first time, did it feel like the
first time you saw CRM? What are the similarities there or, you know, I imagine you were going
along, you were getting new customers, you were doing a lot with salesforce. What prompted
you to get into marketing automation?
What was really interesting as that was, you know, kind of the early days of website telemetry.
So we had the kind of tools that could tell you when a specific company was on your website. I
mean, this was mystical capabilities.
Remember we used like LeadLander at one of the companies. And I remember the sales people
And so there I was, there were these new technologies that were coming from the marketing side,
in salesforce as a platform was like opportunities in accounts. I mean there’s leads and other
things. But you know like the whole focus was revenue, and the marketing tools looked at that
idea of the ability to see behaviours and how do you then translate, oh, well these people seem
more interested. So it started adding shape to the funnel. And the ability to say OK well, you
know, telling the sales organization these companies, you may think you wanna go after these
hundred companies, but if I look at the companies who have been on our website for the last 30
days, only three of those hundred have been here. So yeah, you can keep going and knocking on
the doors, but you should look at the companies are already here. And so that was the dawn of
inbound and Hubspot and led that drive. So SEO optimization. And so that whole lens of what
the website was capable and you know then translate it into nurturing that engagement people
actually talking to a sales person. So the technology exploded that whole top and was the funnel
world. And I mean, we now, let’s go back to our conversation earlier about where Adobe sits
today. Like the trillions of touch points of data that are available that company so they can
leverage putting them into a data warehouse to the point of machine learning algorithm to be able
to say, all right, well here’s the next best piece of content for you. Here’s what the sales person
should talk to you next. Like a little did I know 10 years ago that that was the dawn of where we
could get two today. But all of the technology challenges that I’ve encountered in that, in the last
12 years of technology change, has really just been part of the landscape getting brighter. And
I’ve had a great opportunity in my career, to advance to large organizations, getting to work at
Merketo, getting to go through the Merketo acquisition into Adobe and that adaptation, so
another migration project.
I’d love to dig in more there, just what that experience was like working at Marketo during what
must had been an exciting time having Adobe acquire the company.
Well it was, really again, I can’t say that my journey has been a curated journey. It was really just
the great chances of the people that I’ve met and the people I get to know, I developed a kind of a
esoteric skill set around Microsoft dynamics as a CRM with Marcato.
It’s rare, a rare breed of consultant who knows that.
So having that skill set was fortuitous for me because the partners organization of Marketo
realized that more partners needed to understand how to support dynamics customers. And so I
join the partners organization to you know help develop more partners that had that skill set, you
know, help for the certification programs and everything related to the partners team. And
parallel with that, Marketo itself is undergoing a transformation of needing to re-engineer our
own salesforce instance. And the decision was made while doing that to move off of the then
decade plus old original Marketo instance for Marketo and move onto a new instance. And I
happen to be in the right place at the right time with the right skill set.
So you built the new Marketo instance that Adobe uses today?
Well no. So through the acquisition, Marketo moved to its own new Merketo instance. Which
survive into the acquisition. At the time of the acquisition, Marketo, sorry, Adobe decided they
needed their own Marketo instance. So then a whole new instance was set up that yes, I was
heavily involved in Marketo customer zero, the MCZ instance of Mercato for Adobe, and.
That’s a pretty cool claim to fame, Paul. I mean, you just kind of brushed over that, but that’s,
that’s pretty awesome.
It’s a great opportunity. And you know those, that’s what I’m saying, those are moments that I
can’t try to take any credit for. They happen to get those great opportunities.
That’s amazing. Having kind of being on both sides, the consulting side, the client side, the
vendor, you know, that all of us know, what, I mean you must have some unique perspectives
that you’ve got from being on all of those different sides. Is there anything you can share with us,
like what was the biggest learning, biggest lightbulb moment having been kind of full circle?
Yeah that, I think there’s two. One is what we do is hard. This is very difficult. There are no
simple playbooks. A Marketo implementation is a blank whiteboard. It does not come preset. It
isn’t like HubSpot or some of the other systems that come with canned capabilities that are then
limited. Merketo is an open slate. And the challenges that marketing operations teams face on a
daily basis are technical complexity, data complexity, process complexity, and the marketers
themselves sabotaging unintentionally everything that you’re trying to curate and own and build.
So the first thing is what we do is hard. And as professionals, I think we should, we should enjoy
the scars that we have. I think we should feel proud of the work that we’ve done because it is, it’s
a difficult space that we’re in. And the second is, having been in so many of the different angles
of what the conversation is, agency side, customer side, vendor side, the patients that’s needed to
get to what is really important. It takes time. It’s a very important part of the work. Because you
could hear a requirement and quickly say, I know exactly what Hass to happen. Go and build it
and deploy it and it’s completely wrong. It’s pushing through and really finding out what is, what
are you trying to make actually happen?
The business outcome, the value.
The complex nurture. You know, all of those things, it’s all about patience to go as far as you can
and asked really good questions to get all the information before you think you got it figured out.
Yeah, that’s great. Great perspective and unique. I don’t think there’s that many people who, how
have been in all of those places. Yeah, we’ve been fortunate to get to work together. Having you
as a Knak customer at a few different companies now. Can you maybe share, you know, what
were some of the challenges that you were facing at, at Slack or at OneTrust that made you
think? Because although we knew each other from back in the day in Ottawa we, we weren’t,
you know, in super tight connection. And I remember one day Brandon told me hey, I’m talking
to Paul Wilson. I said I know that guy.
Right. So in those two examples, Slack and OneTrust, they’re different, but they really I think
they do really highlight the strength of neck as a platform. At Slack there was the, acquisition
and the move into salesforce. So some of the back and systems were probably going to adapt. So
the idea of being able to use Slack as a persistent layer where marketers didn’t need to worry so
much about what was happening in the back end, which is very important when we start talking
about OneTrust. But for Slack, there was a secondary element. But the main, the main element
was really facilitating that self-serve capability for marketers to generate assets on their own in
an approval framework. And so it’s, it’s easy to deploy the capability to let marketers build
things. The conversation of whether or not you want to put them in that platform is a different
conversation for a different day. But yes, marketers are able to go and do something in a platform
to make an email or landing page exist. That is true, you could deploy that. But in specific, or
particularly large organizations in enterprise organizations, getting the asset to exist is only one
third of the journey. Getting it to be properly reviewed, and approved, and all the minutia that
goes back and forth related to that is another third. And then protecting and ensuring the brand
compliance and the standards compliance is the other third. And so yes, they can create an email,
but that ignores the other parts of the work. And so for Slack that was really the important
components and the capabilities of having Knak integrated in slack was also great.
Yeah, yeah we built that integration.
So that was important. For one trust, we had, when we started the journey with Knak we had an
existing set of four MarTech infrastructures. So we had, through acquisition two HubSpot’s and a
Marketo instance and OneTrust on Eloqua. And so they were for complete Martech
infrastructures, and we were working through the, the effort to collapse those into one new
Marcato instance. So deploying Knak allowed us to, to put that consistent layer of how to build a
landing page and build an email regardless of what system was going to actually deployed.
Marketers only need to be trained once, and the ability to then deploy the approval framework
and everything else was down the road. But the main thing for one truss was the capability of
having that single panel and different systems in the background because marketers were starting
to market different brands, so they would have to know how to do an email in HubSpot and had
to do an email and Eloqua. So we didn’t wanna have to do that. One layer and then we can
deploy it wherever it had to go.
Every year we do are, our email benchmark study, which is away from marketers to kind of be
able to see how they measure up against their peers in terms of their open rates, click through it,
unsubscribe. And one question we ask everybody is like how are you building emails and landing
pages? And I think it’s still something like 70% of the, marketers around there are using
templates to build their emails and landing pages. As someone with experience using a creation
platform like Knak, what would you say to those marketers who are still using templates?
They’re rigid, they are stifling to an extent. You know, you don’t have the capability to be
creative. And the lack of the visual creativity being there means you’re going to generate
common feeling content very repeatedly. And as content goes stale, engagement goes stale. I
think the ability to have an adaptive framework where brand standards can be respected, but you
can still have creativity and influence on what is shown is great. And I think that the simple isn’t
always better. Having the capability and the flexibility that neck provides is something that I
don’t think marketers really consider as a part of the brand experience. They think of it as
whether it’s easy or hard for me to get the email out the door. What does that email look like?
What is it going to feel like to receive? If it’s the same template over and over again, I’m not
reading your email. So the ability to infuse that creativity is going to mean that you’re adapting,
you’re changing. The experience is going to change too. It’s not always the same.
Another thing we hear a lot is marketers, you know, using test emails or annotated PDFs as
collaboration for building out assets. Again, I’d love to just hear your perspective and what do
you think marketer should be looking for when they’re looking to collaborate in 2023?
Well, I think that’s, that’s kind of a loaded question. First I’m sure it’s different in every
organization. Systems don’t force collaboration. Systems facilitate collaboration. So we will park
the loaded question part of it depends on the organization. I think the capability of the
collaboration and the way that it is incorporated into the discussion is what’s critical. And
annotated PDF is extra work down the road. Because when you look at it and you see oh yeah,
that’s a good thought. OK. I’ve gotta go in here, I’ve gotta do these things. Like you’re into, at
least two platforms whereas if the commentary is adjacent, you can have more discussion, you
can have it immediately, well to make it look like, you know, should it look like this, you can
really test faster and develop those assets better, I’d say.
Then lastly, maybe just the touch on the brand. You mentioned trying to have that one brand
experience. As someone who’s architecting the system to achieve that, how do you think about
that and what’s important to you?
Yeah, I mean, one trust has just gone through, you know, I alluded to the brands through
acquisition. So we had a number of different brands. Those brands were bought into the one trust
brand, sort of the end of last year. And then we refresh that one brand. So the, the ability to
provide marketers with a set of drag and drop brand approve modules that ensures links are the
right color, fonts are controlled the way they need to be. Colour pallets are accessible and
available, means we can deploy a broader set of brand standard capabilities for marketers to
choose layouts that they feel will be most engaging for the contact that they’re developing. It
doesn’t have to be that every webinar invite looks exactly the same. Every piece of nurture
contact looks the same. It allows for different teams to have different expressions of the brand
that still fit within the brand guidelines. Without them needing to ask for my team to generate
another temple in Marketo all. We can give them the ability to have that flexibility themselves.
When you enable self service as a marketing ops leader, what does that mean for the marketing
ops team? For you, for the people on your team? What does that mean what does that give you?
There’s really two core things that I’ve seen and I’ve seen throughout the years. The first thing is
it takes my team out of the business of moving the and from the end of this sentence down to the
start of the next one. Because a lot of the marketer feedback is, is based in opinion. It’s, well I
don’t really like the way that looks can we try this way? My team is trying to get email shipped,
we don’t wanna be in the period moving business. We need marketers to be able to do that on
their own. So that’s, that’s the first element. The second element is an offshoot of that is my team
can then develop better enhance nurture capabilities. We can develop engines that are more
adaptive to the behaviours we see, so that we can tell the marketers, actually you need a whole
other nurture stream because there’s this group of people who are kind of falling off that are still
engaging. But we can do more related to the email experience and if we aren’t busy making sure
that the end moves from this down to there. Those are the two things.
Yeah it’s amazing. I feel like you, you were at the beginning of, of the CRM kind of boom if you
call it that, the beginning of the marketing automation era.
Let me turn my hearing aid up here.
And I really think the way that you’re setting your team up, your marketing ops team to focus on
those high value activities that they can do, and empowering and delighting your marketers to do
the marketing that they really want to do in the first place, it’s amazing to see and we’re really
excited to be part of that. We have a session this week in a couple days with, with Don from
Meta, which I’m looking forward to. And he talks a lot about delighting the marketer. And I think
that, when you’re saying hey, they’re not having to send emails to move words around and
they’re able to use the creativity, I think it’s showing that you’re deleting the marketers.
Well, and we’re looking forward to delighting more than just a marketers. Because that brand
experience goes beyond just a marketing team. So that’s been our core focus today, but we’re
looking to extend the brand capability for other teams to self serve, to develop contaent using
Knak so that the experience that you get with a one trust CSM, or experience from a sales
person, or experience of the look and feel of a support case, all of that, we’re looking to extend
those capabilities to ensure that the brand experiences consistent across all of those teams.
And for the people out there, why can you only do that with Knak?
Assuming you watch this whole video, coming back to the content of the idea that, you know, we
had multiple marketing automation platforms and we wanted to deploy one layer for marketers to
develop their continent. There’s nothing stopping us from being sales people or CSM is
developing the content. And it’s the same capability to ensure that they can be creative, but they
can be creative within the guard rails of a brand. And then every email doesn’t look the same.
And I think that enhancing the extent of brand experience beyond just marketing means that
brand feels deeper when it feels the same across those other teams.
I’d love to move on to a rapid fire questions ask every guest so we can’t let you off the hook
here. So the first one is email dead?
Well, appears you know, so, I I mean I do. It’s a little cheesy but you know, the Ottawa story, the
way that you’ve developed your business and the, the reputation of, you know not only the neck
brand, but revenue post to be an authentic good company not only just to work for, but the
experience customers. I mean, you gotta I gotta go I gotta give you props
Leave it at that. What is one, we’re the Unsubscribed! podcast so what’s one marketing trend you
would unsubscribe from?
It’s not, I’m not gonna blame marketing, it’s the barrage of emails that I get from unknown
people saying great things like, hey Paul, I see we’re in the same space. You breathe oxygen and
I breathe oxygen. Can we have a time next Tuesday to like, turn on LinkedIn, I’m on LinkedIn,
we should connect. That’s right unsubscribe.
Who is one person that you would Meijer in the business community and why?
Huh. Well, pierce you know, it’s a little cheesy but you know, the Ottawa story, the way that
you’ve developed your business and I, the reputation of, you know not only the Knak brand, but
Revenue Pulse to be an authentic good company not only just to work for, but the experience for
customers. I mean, I gotta give you props for that.
I’m flattered thank you. Who is one of the person that we should have on unsubscribe podcast?
That’s a great one, I would say, I’m gonna embarrass myself by saying, I don’t know if you have
or not had them, but Justin Norris.
I haven’t had Justin, but yes, I know Justin, and he was, you guys must have work together. I’d
love to have Justin on.
Now if you can arrange to take Justin to breakfast in Montreal and do the recording there, I
guarantee he’ll be in.
Okay, I’ll try that out. Paul I’ve loved this conversation. We covered a lot of ground there,
starting off with the Adobe summit which is where we are right now. Some of the highlights
from the Keynote. We talked about AI and how people can get started, how they can think about
that. However I can be trusted co-pilot. It was super interesting to hear just your career
progression and all the amazing experiences you’ve had at Merketo and Adobe and salesforce.
And I loved, I love hearing about how our customers use Knak and how it’s helping them at their
companies. So thank you, for joining us. Thank you for being a visionary in the marketing ops
space. It was awesome.
Could talk about this all day long, this was great like I said it was long overdue.
Yeah, and this is our first episode ever in person and it’s way better than zoom, I gotta say that.
Yeah it’s awesome, thanks so much, cheers.
Thanks for listening to Unsubscribed! A podcast created by Knak. If you enjoy this episode of
Unsubscribed! be sure to subscribe to my podcast and leave a review on your favourite podcast
player. If you have any feedback or wanna chat feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn or
follow me on Twitter @marketing_101. Cheers